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xerox 37 ( +1 | -1 )
analyse xerox vs. dominickmazzotta
14 days per move
started: 10-Dec-03, ended: 11-Feb-04
Result: black won (white resigned)
1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bb5 Nf6
4. Nc3 e5
5. Bxc6 dxc6
6. Nxe5 Bd6
7. Nf3 O-O
8. d3 Re8
9. Bg5 Bg4
10. h3 Bh5
11. Qe2 h6
12. Bh4 Bf4
13. g4 Qb6
14. Bxf6 gxf6
15. Qd1 Bg6
16. Ne2 Bxe4
17. dxe4 Ra-d8
18. Qb1 Rxe4
19. Nf-g1 Rd2
20. Kf1 Qa6
21. Qe1 Rxc2
22. b3 Be5
23. Rd1

any comments or analyses from this game are welcome.
I've looked several times to my moves, but I don't find a mistake...
Could someone help me with this game...

eurookie 16 ( +1 | -1 )
board number
could you add the board number (link)?
at that moment, i don't think i'll really be able to help you, but i'd really like to go through the game..

un saludo
eurookie
xerox 1 ( +1 | -1 )
board nummer bd=1324307
ccmcacollister 242 ( +1 | -1 )
Xerox, If a 1200 player may comment... I'd call 12. Bh4 a "mistake". Before that, I'd prefer to play the White side against anyone. But Bh4 seems like a serious strategic mistake to me. Having provoked him to unnecessarily create a target for you with ....h6? .....
<<<<<
(since Be7 would have sufficed to break the pin, I have to believe he was figuring to launch his own K-side attack were you to o-o perhaps. But even if so, I don't think it plays well for him for the very same reason you later encounter...his QB placement is a hindrance, more than a help there.)
<<<<<
it seems to me then cries out for a K-side attack vs Black.Obvously so, in just a few more moves. But all your problems in pursuing it seem to stem from the Bh4 move. Wouldn' you agree?
<<<
1)Its in the way of your coming pawns/Rooks/open lines attack. 2)Its aimed at his Q-side, which is no help. 3)Its abscence from your own Q-side allows his Bf4 inhibiting you from 0-0-0 4)It could be a very helpful participant against his K-side were it at Be3(probably with Qd2 behind it, or you might wish d2 vacant for your K), maybe even Bd2!? allowing it to cover or lift to Bc3 later.
....
Of course you could delay o-o-o almost indefinately if only concerned of a center strike against you since he doesnt seem to have any way to do that. Using either lever pawn seems only to help YOU(c-pawn)in the center, or loosen his K-side for you(f-pawn) .
<<<<<<<<<<
However since you probably will want to o-o-o at some point to get your QR to the K-side, you might be better doing it before he displaces your QN. Because his only active idea seems to be initiating pawn play vs your q-side immediately, even if you aint there yet. Then if he gets far enough along to prevent you, at least he's kept your QR off his K.
<<<<<<<<<
BL's Q-side pawns roll fairly well and quickly. And he'll beable to provide some lateral Rook movement from the Q-side to his defense after moving his a&b pawns, like Ra7 aor Ra6. But i still have more belief in Whites attack than BL's.
...
WT's Q-side only b3 can be used to guarantee BL a forcible line opening. And at worst case, after o-o-o, WT could probably play Kd2 & move his R's back for Q-side defense, if it got too hot there. [perhaps even maintaining some of his own attk in the process. Tho its purely a speculative possibility, not analysis.] 3)Nf6, Bh5, and h6 all look more like Targets to me, than Defenders. Certainly WT's pawn play will be accellerated by kicking them around.
Anyway, that's my take on the game.
trond 84 ( +1 | -1 )
This might surprise you xerox, ..... but crafty (v19.10), didn't find any (serious) mistakes in your game either! (0.33 of a pawn threshold, 1 minute search per move, on a 2.8GHz CPU). Crafty is one of the best (if not THE BEST) free chess engines, rated about 140 ELO points below Fritz 8.
First I thought there might be something seriously wrong with the software, but it caims your'e 0.75 pawns down after searching 13 moves ahead from move 23.

Your position after your move 23 isn't lost!
Best line for black goes (according to crafty):
13-> 2:52 -0.75 23. ... Qxa2 24. Rd3 Bd4 25. b4 b5
26. Rh2 Be5 27. f3 Rxb4 28. Nc1 Rb1
29. Rxc2 Qxc2 30. Rd8+ Kg7

23. ... Bc3 is considered a blunder, and can be met with: 24. Rd8+ Kg7 25. Qd1 Rexe2
26. Nxe2 Rxa2 27. Qd3 Qxd3 28. Rxd3 Be5
29. Rd7 b6 30. Nc1 Rc2 31. Kg2 a6

23. ... Rxa2 is also an ok move for black:
-0.32 1. ... Rxa2 2. Rd2 Ra3 3. Kg2 Rxb3
4. Qc1 b6 5. f3 Ree3 6. Kf2 Red3 7.
Rxd3 Qxd3 8. Qxh6 b5

(All variations by crafty)

Best wishes
Trond
atrifix 97 ( +1 | -1 )
I'm not sure what theory says on this opening. It seems interesting, at any rate. I think the first mistake is 11. Qe2. Simply 11. Qd2 looks much better, avoiding the rook on the half-open file, freeing the f3 knight from the pin, gaining more control over the c1-h6 diagonal, and possibly freeing up e2 for White's knight. 11... Bxf3 is clearly not good, so I imagine Black would have to move ...Qc7 or ...b5. I imagine 11... b5 would be forced since after 11... Qc7 12. 0-0-0 White has the serious threat of g4 and e5, as well as very strong play on the Kingside. After 11... b5 12. Ne2 we get complex play which seems to favor White. I agree that 12. Bh4 is a serious mistake, and after 12. Be3 White should have an advantage. And I think White's position is then completely lost after 13. g4. After 13. g3 I don't see any immediate combinations, so I think White's position should be good enough to hold if he chases the dark bishop from f4. White can't claim any advantage after 13. g3, but I don't think he's losing.
sualksnh 51 ( +1 | -1 )
White did well up to move 15 I think White played well up to move 15.Qd1. Instead of this I opt for 15.Nd1 Bg6 16.Nh4! heading for f5. I don't think Black has sufficient compensation for the pawn. White's King will be very safe on f1.
16...Bxe4! was a brilliant move which could be overlooked easily.
Though the final position seems really bad for White he should have fought on. If Black finds nothing better than simply to eat the pawns on a2 and b3, then White can hope to get his pieces untangled and get some counterplay against Black's King.
xerox 7 ( +1 | -1 )
thanx thanx for all your help...
I'll will look to all those analyses...
ccmcacollister 43 ( +1 | -1 )
My old Knight Stalker program has a short comment that's not too bad. In the later game there it likes the simple 15.Rb1 rather than Qd1 and suggests following then with...Bg6 16.0-0. [Myself, I'd prefer to follow Rb1 with Nd2 instead, but like 16.Nh4 as the follow-up even better, since it insures BL's f-pawns stay put and remain the paperweights they deserve to be. Then if ll16...Bg5? 17Nf5 Bxf5 18.gf5 threatening 19.h4 (f4?! Bf4 20.Qg4+ Bg5 21.h4 d3! 22Nd1 cd3 with unneeded counterplay allowed) Bf4 Qg4+ for 1-0, so BOX:18...Qc7 19Qg4 Qc7 else Ne2 ].
sr_ajedrez 1 ( +1 | -1 )
:) bd=1324307
sr_ajedrez 1 ( +1 | -1 )
:O bd= 1324307
sr_ajedrez 1 ( +1 | -1 )
?? id=sr_ajedrez
mate_you_in_fifty 11 ( +1 | -1 )
sr_ajedrez The coding doesn't work at the beginning of the message. However it will work if you type a space at the beginning.
jstack 52 ( +1 | -1 )
I thought 8. d3 was a little passive I would try 8. 0-0 threatening e5 fork.

PLAY might continue 8. 0-0 Bg4 9. h3 Bxf3 10. QxB and black doesn't have enough for the pawn. He no longer has the bishop pair and the pawn on e4 will be annoying. Of course 9...Bh5 cannot be played as 10. g4 Bg6 11. e5 wins

atrifix was right the first blunder was 11.Qe2. This allowed black to ignore the threat 13.g4 11.g4 might be interesting or as was mentioned by atrifix 11.Qd2

as for 15. Rb1 Bg6 16. Nh4..... it seems to me

16.... Rad8 planning 17...c5 and exchanging on d3 creating a white backward pawn on the d file. I don't see anything white can do to stop this plan.

jstack 39 ( +1 | -1 )
after 23. not lost??? In regarding the crafty analysis

Your position after your move 23 isn't lost!
Best line for black goes (according to crafty):
13-> 2:52 -0.75 23. ... Qxa2 24. Rd3 Bd4 25. b4 b5
26. Rh2 Be5 27. f3 Rxb4 28. Nc1 Rb1
29. Rxc2 Qxc2 30. Rd8+ Kg7

What happens after 24..b5 planning to 25..Rb4 doesn't seem like the check will accomplish anything.(24..b5 25. Rd1+ Kg7 26. now what?) Seems to me the white b pawn falls next and all black has to do is push the pawns.
ccmcacollister 298 ( +1 | -1 )
to jstack...I think that the most elegant way to stop that plan is simply Ng2 then Ne3. I like teh idea that it uses Wts most distant piece, brings it to a better sq where it does everything it did before and more. Makes use of BL's own Bf4 making it a liability in the process. And is perpetualted therre by Nd1 if ever needed. All in all, I'd still rather have justed mated BL on his K-side. Mate is always elegant,final, and besides: "Your mistakes all disappear after you Checkmate". 8-) [EG has anyone mentioned Blacks mistakes here? And he didn't evne Mate, just won !]
.....I've been thinking hard about Qe2 ever since Atrifix mantioned it. Tying to decide if I consider it a mistake. If so, I certainly don't think it a blunder. {With Qe2 and Nc3, then moving KN if needed for pf3 support, WT could maintain the e4 point indefinately.If such were desiered. It is not the kind of center I'd forge ahead with. It cannot be overcome where it is, with correct play. Advancing it would increase BL's chances against it. The fact that WT could never even play e5 without BL's permission seems significant.}
.....I view Qe2 as a temporary Q-placement to stop the doubling of pawns from Bxf3. This is the strange part to explain: I prefer the pawns remain straight, rather than doubled with an open g-file, so that I can use them to force open a K-side file . (everyone please feel free for a good heartfelt "huh??" here!)
.....What I'm saying is that I know I can use them to forcibly open a K-side file, a bit later after I o-o-o, the process of which I believe will be more meaningful than the other opening. Because I want to abuse & misplace BL's K-side pieces as much as possible as part of it all. Line opening is always possible when an advancing pawn can attack any 2 opposing units simultaneously, or a single stationary unit. (I believe many players don't always know it, but do think all Master know how to line open. That is the simplest way I can think of the explain it, for anyone out there needing it. Probably the single most important attacking technique one can have). And don't believe BL can prevent such conditions from occuring.
....So I have to ask about the tempo used for an extra Q-move. I feel the time is there, would not effect the outcome, but most of all suits my style of play better.
Thus I might have done it as well, and often do. Or left it on Qd1 until g4 unpinned the Nf3. And So would call it at worst an "inaccuracy" to play Qe2, if one is willing to allow the double f-pawns. [With doubling prevented, as said before, I too would like it on Qd2 witha Be3 in fromt of it.] For me to do so would be yet another situation of "It don't hurt, but it don't feel good!" (That is my album title. Now I just need songs. [&) But wouldn't want to call it mistake to allow the doubling. Atirifix always seems objective & accurate from what I've read , & doesn't mind it. I can think of many who would not, or might prefer that position. Seems Xerox & I are not as comfortable with it.
jstack 23 ( +1 | -1 )
The problem with 17. Ng2 is black simply plays Be5 threatening to win a piece with 18..BxN. If white tries to chase the queen with 18. Na4 black answers with Qb4+ winning the piece for sure. So black gets to play c5 right? Or am I missing something?
atrifix 74 ( +1 | -1 )
I don't understand To me it seems that 11. Qd2 Bxf3 is obviously bad because White gets the open g-file and the use of the f-pawn for f4, e5, etc. Certainly Black cannot combine ...Bxf3 and ...h6 because White will just play Bxh6. I don't think the doubled pawns are bad since White is intending to play 0-0-0 anyway. Currently Black has numerous tactical possibilities which are all based on the awkward position of the Q on e2 (...Nxe4 or ...Bh5-g6-xe4), and some compensation for the pawn, albeit not enough, so it seems to me that exchanging material is likewise good for White. I really can't believe 11. Qd2 Bxf3 can possibly be good for Black, so therefore I think 11. Qd2 is better than 11. Qe2. 11. Qe2 is not a blunder, however, since it's not an oversight and White's position really is not all that bad, but it deteriorates over the next couple of moves.