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nwadvana 71 ( +1 | -1 )
Doubled Pawns In the Sicilian
I wanted to know whether doubled f pawns in the sicilian were good for black or not. Below is an example from which they may occur, however there are of course many other sicilain variations where black could allow the doubling. Ive just adopted the sicilian, and ive never come accross the latter, however if it does, in theory, should black allow this? It does give black 3 pawn islands, and the weak pawn on h6 is evident though it can easily be advanced, However black does have a good central pawn structure... This is just my opinion..

Thanks in Advance.-

1. e4 c5
2. Nf3 e6
3. d4 cxd4
4.Nxd4 Nf6
5. Nc3 Nc6
6. Nxc6 bxc6
7. Bg5 Qb6
8. Bxf6 gxf6

caldazar 110 ( +1 | -1 )
Looks fine to me Sicilian structure vary significantly, so usually not possible to say "such-and-such is good/bad in all Sicilians".

The position given looks perfectly playable for Black, though. He has the two bishops, and two pairs of minor pieces have already been exchanged, dampening White's attacking potention. White has no development advantage and ...d5 should be relatively easy for Black to play when the time comes (he doesn't even have to worry about a response of e5 to boot). Black is going to have excellent central control and easy piece development. Perhaps this is a bit optimistic, but I feel that Black is already standing a bit better.

I have no idea what theory gives for this, but something like 9. Rb1 d5 10. exd5 cxd5 looks quite pleasant for Black. The only other alternative for White that I see is 9. Qd2 Qxb2 10. Rb1 Qa3, but I seriously doubt White has enough activity to justify the gambit.

As an aside, I've always personally found 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3 Qc7 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. g4 b5 11. Bxf6 gxf6!? interesting, if for no other reason than the fact it looks a bit insane, especially after 12. f5 Ne5 13. Qh3 O-O(!).
nwadvana 44 ( +1 | -1 )
Ouch! That line looks dangerous, its not the kind of thing i want to fall into :-). Though i must say, that blacks position is solid.

Personally after a few blitz games with the siclian, the doubled pawns, in my opinion give black a static advantage. Th king gets good shelter at e7, and the seemingly weak h pawn can always turn into a battering ram against the white king if hes hiding at the kingside.
atrifix 167 ( +1 | -1 )
Well, doubled f-pawns in themselves are never a good thing. However, the dynamic advantages (open g-file, possibility of ...f5, etc) often can outweigh the static disadvantage of having doubled f-pawns. The line given in the original post looks perfectly playable, but I would delay 9... d5 10. exd5 cxd5 in view of 11. Bb5+ (perhaps something like 9... Ba6 or 9... Rg8 first). However, you'll be lucky to find people who will play 7. Bg5; most will play 7. e5 Nd5 8. Ne4 after 6. Nxc6.

One of the most common occurences in all Sicilian positions occurs from the Sveshnikov variation, which can be forced from the Four Knights with 6. Ndb5 instead of 6. Nxc6, e.g. 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 with a transposition to the Sveshnikov. After 8... a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 (not 10... Qxf6? 11. Nd5 Qd8 12. c4+/-) Black once again has doubled f-pawns, but they can be liquidated immediately after 11. Nd5 f5. It would probably be a good idea to familiarize yourself with such lines if you do play 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 :)

Another very common variation where Black winds up with doubled f-pawns, and they usually hang around for awhile, is the Richter-Rauzer, e.g., 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 Be7 8. 0-0-0 0-0 9. Nb3 a6 10. Bxf6 gxf6 (10... Bxf6 11. Qxd6), and, while the pawns are solid, they don't have the same sort of dynamic capabilities as in the Sveshnikov. All in all, the position is about equal, but White tends to score a little better. Often White will even undouble Black's pawns with a later f5xe6 just to pressure the e6 pawn into advancing and creating weak squares on d5 and f5.

Doubled f-pawns in the Sicilian are quite common, but who will have the advantage in such positions is all dependent on the other features of the position.
nwadvana 51 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks Its clarified a few things and allowed me to introduce new ideas in the type of sicilian i will play.

Speaking of the Sicilian, and i know this must of been asked in countless threads before, but i am just being lazy :-).

Which line of the sicilian gives blacks the most wins, or lets say draws. I ask the statistical figures for this.

I realise that just by playing the most popular or statistically advantageous line, wont yield the same results all the time, but just generally :-)

rafaelluiz 23 ( +1 | -1 )
The name is... double pawns in the center rauser sicilian. Black has a very good game in the end because its pair of bishops, g-file open and c-file open good for rooks.
In the middle-game, white has the advantage.

atrifix 6 ( +1 | -1 )
Statistically either the Kan or the Taimanov variations tend to score the best.
nwadvana 10 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks Well the Kan and Taimanov Sicilians are very similar, atrifix, if i may ask, where do you get these statistics from?
nwadvana 10 ( +1 | -1 )
Thanks Well the Kan and Taimanov Sicilians are very similar, atrifix, if i may ask, where do you get these statistics from?
atrifix 32 ( +1 | -1 )
Statistics has a few, and a lot of databases have winning percentages. My guess is that there are probably a lot more sites on opening statistics, so maybe you'll come across a couple.
davidar 60 ( +1 | -1 )
RE:Sicilian Looking at top rate players(and my own favorite variation) I believe that the
najdorf(more specifically the scheveningen)scores quite well,as does the taimanov
for black.On the question of doubled f-pawns,check out the Kasparov-Short world
championship match of 1993,where Kasparov successfully used this variation in
several of the games,which were indeed solid for black.Usually black tries to
establish the f7-e6-f5 pawn structure,where the open g-file can be used for the
rook.However I would not use this variation too much if other less risky variations
can be u
atrifix 17 ( +1 | -1 )
The Najdorf typically does not score as well percentagewise as the Kan/Taimanov, but it is used more. All in all, the Sicilian tends to score better than other openings, though.